Modesty DOES Matter
Below is my response to Ed Gungor’s article, “Does Modesty Really Matter?” on Relevant Magazine:
Ed, I very much agree that we should all examine our own hearts before taking out the plank in someone else’s eye. I am glad that you were honest about what you felt about colored tights and the way they related to the image of pornography. Men are wired to remember stimulating images, and you are no different.
That said, however, I think your article addressed the issue of judging more than the issue of modesty. Does modesty matter? Yes, it does. The passage you quoted and many others that are found in the Bible tell us so (e.g. 1 Tim 2:9-10, 1 Tim 3:1-6, 1 Peter 3:1-6, etc.). Modesty is primarily an issue of the heart that goes beyond clothing, but we must also not draw attention to ourselves in a way that causes men to stumble. It’s easier for a man to lust over a woman who is showing a lot of skin versus a woman who isn’t. The Bible makes it clear that a man who lusts in his mind is already committing adultery (Matt 5:27-28). Why would I want to contribute to that? I cannot totally eradicate the way men think about me, but I can help them not notice my sexual parts as much.
I am a big fan of C.S. Lewis, but when he wrote about cultural norms, he did not have the internet. The introduction of media such as TV and the internet led to globalization. Cultures collided and have become more centralized and Americanized. I grew up in the Pacific Islands, and I can vouch for the way media has significantly changed our cultural norms, including our fashion. The same group of people from the Pacific and everywhere else in the world are looking at American pornography. That said, the majority of people all over the world can come to a consensus as to what is sexually stimulating.
Yes, modesty values are subjective. Yet, what I do know is that regardless of the decade we’re living in or the geographical area we reside in, there are certain areas of a woman’s body that are always stimulating to men, especially when accentuated. America is especially obsessed with women’s breasts, so that is why showing cleavage through low-cut blouses and bikinis is sexually stimulating. Sadly, it seems like America has stripped down its standards to what is modest as being what is legally permitted (covering sexual organs) in public. That to me is the extreme. As to what is borderline for most, such as wearing skinny jeans, tank tops, or brightly colored tights, it seems that there can be debate even among Christians. The obvious is covering up or concealing at best the areas of the body that are predominantly sexually stimulating: the chest, the crotch area, the butt, the hips, the thighs.
I run a modest fashion site at alamodest.com. I do not judge or criticize people on specific borderline details of how they dress, because I know that it is not my right to do so. Only Christ can be the judge over our hearts and the reason behind our clothing lifestyle. What I do write about is based on my own personal experience, aiming to inspire other women with my fashion and help people understand my philosophy based on the Bible and the evidential psychology of the male and female mind.
To be honest, I think that it is honorable for a man to gather up the courage to tell another woman that she is causing him to lust. It is harder for a man to be this vulnerable and honest about his own weakness than for him to just ignore it or enjoy and indulge in the object of his lust. As with insanity, the first step to healing lust is admittance to or repentance from his own weakness. I believe it should be okay for a man to approach a woman with sincerity and admit that his weakness is being captive to the lust caused by the way she dresses. This to me is a cry for help from a brother we must embrace rather than a judgmental fool who needs to be slapped because of his pointing finger. It all depends on the way the man approaches the woman, be it with sincerity and humility or with accusation and a scolding tone. How else would I have started to dress modestly if not for my husband’s (then fiancee’s) telling me when my clothing tempted him and possibly others? I would not have learned this telepathically from anyone else in their silence. The men who used to gawk at me may have just been indulging in what they saw and not having the humility to tell me that what I was wearing, something too low-cut or short, was possibly seductive, as a loving brother would have.
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This post was originally from à la Modest by Rachel Dahl. You can go directly to her website or Facebook for more posts on modesty.
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[New Post] Modesty DOES Matter – from @alaModest http://isthismodest.com/2010/08/30/modes...
I love you, Rachel! Excellent!
What a lot of people need is that they have to start living for Christ rather than for their own drives of “humanity”. The more we focus on Christ, the more we will be satisfied and He will give us a spouse or help heal our marriages, etc. . .because striving for Him helps us and heals us from our sinful struggles!!
I suggest men and women try to find someone who is a Christian that perhaps has been through the struggle or whom they can count on, that can keep them accountable and help them through their hard issues. There are also sexual rehabilitation centers that are God-focused that have helped many men out of these really hard issues.
There has been the recent connection between pornography being so damaging to one’s mind/soul, that it is on the same level of heroin addiction.
Victoria,
Thanks so much for your comment! Yes, I do know about that study. We can’t just have a “little bit of porn” just like we eat small amounts of food and not eat excessively. That stuff really damages lives and is very addictive (like heroine) whereas food is essential to physically live. That drive for sexuality can be achieved within marriage, and that is why God provided a way out through matrimony.
A lot of men use the resources on the website, “Setting Captives Free” to get out of their porn addiction. It really saddens me and makes me so angry that pornography exists and is justified as okay by so many people… those people are selfish for their own pleasure and money.
To me, this raises an interesting new set of questions, do we do enough to encourage immodesty between married people? I mean, a married man will see immodest women regardless of whether he has no kids or 5 kids, and they (to him) may always seem inviting. I’m not saying that a married woman should attempt to be dirty, but I think that both men and women have the tendancy to give up the chase and let go of appearances after that ring is on their finger. And yet they have the advantage, because they are the ones that have earned their spouse’s trust. There’s probably another post in there somewhere…
I have a question to you about that.
I run a modesty ministry blog and really what is important is that within the marriage, the husband is to enjoy his wife alone and she is to enjoy her husband alone. If they are home alone and she is immodest for her husband, she is not immodest, for it is God’s plan for them to share intimacy and it is a RIGHT lust because they are married. I don’t know if that is what you were aiming for.
As for when a married couple has the married lady starting to dress immodestly outside of for her husband alone, then that is what is going to cause a problem. Speaking from experience, I can tell you that I gave into that lie of thinking I could do whatever in how I dressed and get away with it. . .in reality I was causing many men to sin and I believe I was responsible for a lot of it, instead of helping them by how I dressed.
Just because a couple is married doesn’t mean they aren’t free from lusting after other people at all, it should just means that they should work harder at putting God as the center core piece of their marriage. They should be willing to share their struggles and work on them together. That way they can enjoy each other and love one another in every way – for their soul, heart, and body. And that is right!
I think that we’re on the same wavelength here. I’m not saying that a wife should be immodest in public, but I am saying that in the privacy of their home a wife should be "immodest" for her husband (where applicable). I think it may be hard, however, to keep the different focus– and sometimes it can seem "impracticle" to have things to wear just for him. The thing is, this wasn’t really an issue when it was the honeymoon night or when he really wanted to get married, but as time goes on, capturing his desire and his looks seems so much less important than getting the groceries and running the house. The people around him, however, are still dressing to get his attention. They didn’t stop. Does that make sense?
There really isn’t a “right” lust. Lust is always sin and is usually defined, among Christians, as the desire for something you were or aren’t meant to have. Meant to have means something God never wanted for you, so the commandments of coveting your neighbor’s goods or wife is part of the act of lust.
That sexual desire the husband has for his own wife and vice versa is godly sexuality, and I think this is what you meant by that :) It’s just all in the technicality of words.
I think we are on the same page, so I’ll stop talking! I know you, Victoria! I love you for your stand!!
Yes, I wrote about that too in the “The Invisibility Cloak: The Desire to be Noticed”! Reading through your string of comments here, I agree that 1) the wife should continuously and actively make herself attractive to her husband 2) Do this in PUBLIC with pleasantness in her clothing and demeanor but not sexually 3) Do this in PRIVATE sexually. Women should want their husbands to be proud of them both outside of the house (non-sexual pleasantness) and inside the home (to himself, sexually).
It is quite impractical to keep a set of clothes ONLY for her husband especially when you have kids who model after you. You wouldn’t want them to see you in basically lingerie at home, so what I’ve learned to do is to just dress to attract my husband sexually at home when NO ONE ELSE is around. I didn’t have to buy new clothing for this because I’ve collected a vast amount of clothes from my pre-modest days. I found good use for them!
The lie of “But honey, I wore this dress for YOU” in public should be eradicated!
Another idea: Find clothing that you can layer and be modest outside the home, but wear stand-alone inside the home. And there is a difference, in some ways, of what goes on in the home– pajamas (in my opinion) should never be worn outside the home. But afterhours, and kids are asleep, there could definitely be a different standard in the home.
Congratulations! You’re comment 3000! As such, you’re the winner of the August 2010 New Creation Apparel Secret giveaway. There’ll be a full post tomorrow on your win, but expect an e-mail soon for the contact details!
Just for this, I think “Layering 101″ should be part of the Christian women’s curriculum. There is always the fun of un-layering by the husband, too. I think pajamas should be replaced with robes, to be honest… Pajamas aren’t attractive on women (privately and especially publicly), but that is just my opinion!
haha. that is so true. I agree with you on that. If I were to walk around the house wearing practically nothing, what message is that going to bring to my sons as they grow and as I teach them to have respect for women and control over their actions? a poor testimony that would be for certain. Granted I can only teach them as much as I can and then hope that they will reflect on it when they make their own choices. My husband is very very sad that his parents NEVER talked to him about sex ever. It may have helped him out of a lot of problems he had, granted he still would have had to make his own decisions anyway, and may have chosen wrong, but it is important that parents teach their children right and wrong. Instead too many of them encourage their kids by buying them porn or sharing their own with them (eek) and hand them condoms, etc. . .because they just think it is “all good fun” and a “part of growing up” without realizing that there is a string of damage that can be done because of the choice.
anyway great discussion. I look forward to the future ones!! hehe. :: applauds Rachel ::
Setting Captives Free helped my husband a lot when he had his struggle. It didn’t ultimately help him, but it encouraged him to smash a bunch of stuff he had and to read the Word a little since he was away from it for that time. What really helped him was me being so positive to help out and encouraging and praying for him. And then ultimately seeing a marriage we knew that had it worse and learning about human trafficking. the human trafficking issues we learned really opened his eyes the biggest I think. It is the idea that you are not only sinning in watching others sin, but you are watching someone being abused most likely and told what to do when they really are suffering and don’t want to do that. I think porn really damages no only the guy watching it, but the people involved in making it, and ultimately the family of the guys who are in relationships/married. It breaks too many trust issues along with lust issues.
This is a really good comment. I think that there are two really good things to remind any guy caught in a sexual sin. One is the one you mentioned. The other, if he’s a father to a daughter, is the idea that these people are someone else’s kids. Both of these facts should effect a man’s conscience– but just stopping doing something is sledom enough. It must be replaced with something else. In this case, it’s replacement with the Word and removing things. In other cases it might be spending time helping someone less fortunate. The only lasting change comes from the inside– that’s where that prayer and encouraging you gave him makes the greatest impact.
It is good if that is enough to help some men stop. Thankfully my husband has been free for 4 years and he keeps me updated on his feelings of it so that Satan can’t come back to tempt him to sin, but we are friends with a married couple where a guy had to go to sex rehab because it wasn’t enough for him to learn about all the things that go on in pornography. even that didn’t help. I think in that case it is more of surrendering it all and needing to just give it all to Christ and to be in prayer constantly. There were countless times where Jesus told people that through their faith they were healed. . .I think the same can apply for sinful issues rather than physical issues. This is where I see how it is as bad as a heroin addiction. They have it so rough that they go crazy with withdrawal if they don’t give into their desires.
If they have enough faith that God can take their lust problems away, He will. They do have to just make sure there is someone who can be accountable to them and someone who can help make sure that they are not going to fall back into it, but I think there are some who like it so much that they go looking for it and sometimes simply seeing cleavage can make them want more and more until they need to act out in their lust.
My own husband used this website, too :) It really is important to have that accountability, and married couples themselves should discuss with each other about this regularly.
I do agree with what you said! Finding something else to focus on is a great way to deterring your mind from pornography or sexuality, and your fight against human trafficking is something I really look up to :)
I did notice however that once we set our minds away from sexual immorality, we tend to become very sensitive to it more than we used to be when we were living in sin. That includes me! So, a sight of cleavage for my husband and the equivalent for me drives us up the wall! A sexually-infused movie now makes me cry when it just used to make me sad and just a show of a little skin from other women is more inviting to my husband than it used to be. I can see it as Satan attacking us more now because of our stand. It’s something we have to sacrifice in exchange for indulgence, and we can use our sensitivity to sexual displays for the good by being so adamant and active in our fights! God is always greater than Satan, so even if we give up our days to the beach or certain content-filled media and Satan taunts us by making us feel bad and alienated, we know that God’s got our back and smiling on us :)
WOHOO! Rachel again! Loved this article! (I read it on her blog though)
Rachel will be featured every Monday at least through September!
The majority of this site is insulting to me. A man approaching a woman to tell her that her clothing is causing him to lust? How incredibly rude! That man needs to simply NOT LOOK. And the Bible says that a man is committing adultery just by thinking about it? Excuse me, the world isn’t run on the bible. Men are men, and will be men. As long as they do not act on their thoughts, and still love their girlfriend, no harm is done. I do not cause men to sin. They cause themselves to sin. Do not dare blame it on me.
My whole wardrobe is probably immodest according to this site. Yet, my Christian best friend, my Catholic grandparents and all my other friends and family never frown upon my clothing choice. This is really to the extreme. I see nothing wrong with tank tops, or showing shoulder in general. Shoulders are not sexy areas, last I heard. And I’m not about to wear knee length skirts or pants in Florida’s summer for the sake of modesty. My shorts cover my butt. Why do my thighs need to be covered? I’m not going to make myself miserable for the sake of men. This whole site is sexist. All for the sake of God, who is pretty darn OUTDATED.
Sierra, I’m not sure why you have so much pent up anger, but this site exists for those people that choose to be modest, and is a discussion of what is and is not considered modest. While your opinion certainly is valid, you must understand that for those people that want to be modest and want to know what to wear to keep the men around them from lusting after them– this is for them. This site is obviously not for you as you don’t seem to care what others around you think of your clothing. This may be selfish on your part, but certainly a position you’re welcome to take. Just as you belittle and judge those that would read this site and state that there’s nothing wrong with the way you dress, there is nothing wrong with dressing modestly.
Very good response! Thank you for post this! Looks like we had some good discussion going as well.
This was good to read. I’m glad I found it!. The comments are also good. I think I like to read through them just as much. :)
#Feb2011NCARating