Males Judging Modesty?
We asked our readers, in a recent poll:
Who Do You Think Has a Better Grasp on What is Modest?
- Men (82%, 23 Votes)
- Women (18%, 5 Votes)
This is the operating premise of this site—men know what is modest and what is not, and the easiest way for us to communicate this information is through writing articles and showing photographs that we can comment on as to what is good or not so good in terms of keeping modest.
However, this has led to a lot of controversy. Here’s a sampling of some of the arguments:
You Need to Set a High Standard
After looking over our site, one father stated that he expected a blog about modesty to be one that would have images absent of immodest photographs of females exposing themselves. He believed that it would be best if we would stick to only showing modest attire in the hopes that people would recognize modesty by only seeing what was modest.
You May Be Causing Yourself to Stumble
One person was viewing some of the images that were showing up in the Flickr Feed and wondering how they got there. They were concerned for me personally, as I had been finding images and approving them. Knowing the visual nature of photographs—and the fact that that which is seen is seldom forgotten, they were concerned over this process.
Are You Being Harmless?
I tried to start a modesty in the news, but one of my articles caused one reader difficulty, as they thought that the topic on teacher/student relations was too adult for their readership. That coupled with their standard of morality and the fact that some images we showed were considered immodest caused us to be removed from a blog listing of modest sites.
Should Males Be Reviewing Female Photos?
And lastly, there was some question as to whether it was right for a male to look at a female in a photograph and making a judgment on whether the image was immodest or modest.
The Point?
This site has always been about asking a question that people have differences of opinion on. The Iranians believe that burqas are the only modest outfit. There are those that wear strapless dresses to formal events and believe it to be fine.
The Bible doesn’t set a standard on modesty as much as it talks about the inner man/woman and protecting each other from stumbling. It also stresses that Christians are to behave toward one another, lifting them up, refraining from judging motives in grey areas, but encouraging one another to follow God’s design.
Changes
In keeping with that, we made some changes.
- We removed the Flickr Feed temporarily, while we had two others—one male, one female—review the images in the feed and remove the questionable ones.
- I have ceased all activities regarding the finding and inviting of photos—except where I see and get approval from the two other administrators.
- I’ve been recruiting female writers to find and judge what images should be in our Quick Review section.
- Quick Reviews will now be balanced by reviews of outfits from stores that claim “modesty” as part of their marketing agenda.
- We will be moving to separating the feed (due to be completed this month) so that you will have to opt into getting the Quick Review feed, and we’ll be moving the Flickr Feed to only be seen in that section in our new design.
Still, I’m not sure that is enough. It is not my, or any member of my staff’s, intent to cause people to stumble, to try to stand in a place of judgment, etc. Specifically, we’re here to dialog on modesty, to encourage it, and help you define it.
As the poll at the beginning stated, the women readers of this site believe, overwhelmingly, that men know better what’s immodest/modest, and we’re trying to help you see and understand what we see.
Yes, it’s best for you to dialog with your parents or your husband—we encourage it and even hope that you’d do it! But we’re hoping that we can also be of help with our words and with our images.
As Paul said in Romans 14—not for meat will we harm a brother in Christ, and if it must come to it I’d rather change this site, or shut it down than to hurt a brother or sister in Christ.
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Iranians don’t wear burkhas. There is a wide range of modest dress styles among Muslim women. Westerners frequently make the mistake of eliding them. Most Iranian women dress modestly. The state requires women to wear a scarf on their head, but it is often loosely wrapped and exposes a lot of hair. It’s not uncommon to see Iranian women in jeans, a tunic and a scarf wrapped around their heads. The one Iran-specific garment is the chador, and women are not required to wear them either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chador
The burkha is a traditional garment generally worn in rural Afghanistan and Pakistan only. The Taliban enforced it on all Afghan women, but before that, it was not commonly worn in cities. It is only very rarely worn outside of Afghanistan. There are a few other face-concealing garments worn by Muslim women, but the burkha is unique.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa
I guess I was trying to make a more generic point about a culture and how that culture is more modest– and builds its clothing choices around a more modest standard than we do in the states.
Would you agree that they believe that our culture is immodest, and that they are much more modest and have different opinions on modesty?
Sounds like you’re making some good changes. I really enjoy this site. :)
.-= Anne´s last blog ..Engagement =-.
I think it reflects well on you all who “have” this site, that you are willing to make changes like these, (“for other people.”) I appreciate your sensitivity to others opinions and think y’all are handling the matter very well. God bless!
I think what you’re doing is probably enough. The title of your site is “Is this modest?” not “This is modest” which implies that not everything on the site will be 100% modest. I really like the way you show what is immodest and tell why. This is much better than a vague idea of modesty and immodesty. Also, I feel you do a good job of choosing images that aren’t too immodest but still show what’s immodest and why. I haven’t seen any pictures of bikinis or other similar clothing.
JuneNCA
I personally prefer to hear a males perspective as I never believed my mom when she told me certain things I’d wear were immodest until a guy told me that it was. Or even other girls for that matter. :? The way you’re doing it now is good for me because I then take what’s considered immodest overall in a picture and think through my wardrobe to see if I have something similar that would cause anyone to possibly stumble and then remove it.
Modesty is subjective, how can anyone judge for another what may or may not be modest? Then if you look at it from a cultural point of view – what is modest in one country is way on the other extreme in another.
A very thought provoking subject.
True. In India it’s considered horribly immodest for a girl to show her ankles, yet they will show their midriff on a regular basis.
Food for thought. I would agree that men are better judges of what is modest and what is not (it IS for them that we do it after all). But should they be critiquing outfits? I’m not sure. That’s what fathers/husbands are good for. They’re not going to have a problem with an immodest outfit, but they’ll be able to recognize if another man would.
Well, I wouldn’t say modesty is all because of guys. They are a big reason, yes, but I would say that it’s also for our own hearts and for the kind of example we’re setting for the rest of the world in how a Christian young woman should dress. A standard needs to be set somewhere, for the sake of guys eyes, yes, but dressing immodestly doesn’t really do our witness, reputation, or soul much good either when we settle for the lower standard (which can have negative effects in more than one way)…imho. :)
I have to agree with you, Australia. Guys are only one of the reasons that we dress modestly. It has to go deeper than that. First and foremost, modesty is a choice we make for God.
I have a feeling that Lady Abigail agrees with us, it just didn’t quite come across that way.
#Feb2011NCARating