Do You See What I See?
There’s been a lot of discussion over the banner here at Is This Modest. And it’s been interesting to see what’s been said.
Rebecca put it well:
About the model above: as a woman, I would never think anything of that picture, but my husband would quickly note that she’s naked.
But I’m almost wondering if she’s the perfect mascot.
You see, even in the relatively short lifespan of this blog we’ve hit on something that’s foundational to the question of modesty. It was asked by Anna Grace and Rachel on the post regarding the color red:
I second Anna Grace, where do we draw the line between looking nice and presentable and dressing for attention?
The problem is that any one article of clothing can be worn in a modest or immodest way. Many times it’s like what Justice Potter Stewart said:
"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that." (emphasis added)
He was speaking about pornography, but the same can be said of modesty. I could say, like I did, that V-Neck shirts are immodest. You could say that they work for large chested women.
And we both can be right.
It’s when you take the abstract and apply it to real people that we can tell what is modest and what is not.
College Tales
When I was in college we had what was called Artist Series—an excuse for men and women to get dressed up and go get some culture. These were concerts, operas, and plays and you were encouraged to bring a date. The guys would get all dressed up, and if you really wanted to impress the girl you’d buy tickets or stand in line for hours to get the best tickets instead of just getting them “whenever.”
They taught you about getting her flowers. They taught you how to smell nice and to get a shower!
The ladies would get out their formals, you’d go pick her up and get pictures and escort her to the place for the concert. And, being the Christian Liberal Arts University it was, the girl’s dress had to check. Is it above the knee? Show too much skin? Then find a way to make it modest.
This didn’t cause too much of an issue—except there was this one night that I was going with some friends (didn’t have a date) and I saw about 10 rows up that there was a girl that was wearing a strapless gown.
Ok, so I didn’t see the gown. All I could tell was that from the part of her back that I could see up she wasn’t wearing any clothing1.
Now, going to a Christian college where all ladies wore dresses every time I saw them, this meant that my mind was going crazy. My mind couldn’t separate the fact that I knew this girl was wearing something with what my mind was picturing2.
Back to the Header
So, the header embodies the very problem that we’re trying to help women and men overcome here. We each see things differently. The ladies think of a gown. Me, I saw the crazy hair and the eyes. Some guys could be tempted.
But that’s the point. We need to work together so that we understand each other. So that we see things how someone else sees it. We need to look through each other’s eyes at the problem, and come to grips with the fact that we’re different.
- Obviously this girl was from off campus. This never would have checked. [↩]
- Not that I had any idea what an unclothed girl would look like—seriously. [↩]
Loading ...
See, and I noticed her crazy hair and her lips. If I could look like anyone, it’d be her. She’s beautiful, she’s bold, she’s striking, and she’s chic. To me, her hair and face is so captivating, I don’t even notice her shoulders. (Okay, I’ve gotta stop gushing over that picture.)
This is also the opportunity to bring up another good point. Women can dress as modestly as we want to, but if a guy doesn’t guard his eyes and heart, he’ll still stumble when he sees her. What can I say – God made women to be beautiful. God made men to be visual. In a marriage relationship, that’s a beautiful combination. Outside of it, we both have to be very careful.
Anna Graces last blog post..Kaleo’s Transfusion Went Well
What a great site!
I take a different approach from Anna Grace. While I agree the model is stunning and the photography is a-maz-ing, I immediately noticed that she had bared shoulders. Then again, since I’m always on the lookout for my teenage girls in the youth group to make sure they are not luring young men into mental temptation, these kind of things draw my attention. I definitely don’t think it’s immodest in that in doesn’t show cleavage or anything, but what would a young man think seeing this, especially if he struggles with visual temptation?
Rachels last blog post..What’s Within Your Borders?
Thanks, Gina! MIn’s put in a lot of hard work getting this baby off the ground. Glad you like. And hey, let me know if you’d like to be a part of the ITM team at agg_115@yahoo.com.
Rachel, I think you have a more godly outlook on modesty than I do. MIn and I were going through some fashion pictures today and he was totally focused on the “Modest or Not” question and I discovered that I am quite often too focused on the aesthetics of an outfit. He’d point out that something was a little too low cut or whatever and my first reaction would be “That’s so sad, ’cause it’s so cute!”
How do we find a balance between wanting to look cute and still wanting to draw attention toward God and not ourselves?
Hey Anna Grace,
Well first of all, with fashions today, it is really REALLY hard to find something that is cute and still modest. If you purchase clothes that are trendy nowadays, you almost have to layer them with something just to keep yourself covered. Living in the deep south, I have pretty much given up on looking cute because it’s so hot here, there’s no way I’m going to wear 2 shirts just to look cute and modest! I’ll take one layer and frumpy. :)
In all seriousness, I battle this issue several times a week with with my girls. I have two girls in my youth group who are 15 and 16 and they look (physically) like they are in their 20s. When I get onto them about their clothes they whine and complain that they can’t find anything that fits. That doesn’t stand with me because when I was their age I was built just like them and I managed to find clothes that fit, were cute, and still covered everything. For a while my girls were wearing low-cut tops that showed lots of cleavage and I got onto them and told them if they continued wearing those shirts they HAD to put something under them. They said they didn’t have any undershirts and their mom wouldn’t take them shopping. So I went out and bought them some plain black & white tanks to wear under their tops. Guess what they started doing? Wearing the (spaghetti-strapped) tanks I bought them as undershirts as outershirts! When I confronted them about wearing them, they go, “But Mrs. Rachel, you GAVE us these shirts – now you’re saying they are immodest??” I was so angry I probably could have put my fist through a wall. I could hear echoes of Adam saying, “But Lord, the woman YOU GAVE ME…” in my head. :)
So I came up with a solution to our modesty problem. I went and got a couple of oversized sweatshirts and some iron-on letters from wal-mart. My plan was to put on there “I’m wearing this shirt because I don’t know how to properly dress myself for church” but my pastor told me that was a little too harsh (bordering on “dunce cap”). So it says “Modesty Shirt.” Anytime one of the girls is wearing something inappropriate, anyone in the church is allowed to go get one of the modesty shirts, hand it to them, and they have to wear it for the duration of church. I told the girls even the men have this privilege and how embarrassing would it be for one of the male Sunday school teachers to tell them to cover up? We just introduced it last Wednesday before we evacuated, so we’ll see how it goes when we all get back. :)
Rachels last blog post..WFMW: Need Frugal Help!
Rachel, I think I love you.
This 15 year old girl who looks 23? She always wears really low-cut shirts, too. She told me one time that if she wears her shirts any higher, she feels like they’re choking her. I challenged her that week to get used to just adding 1-2″ onto her neckline – she doesn’t have to start wearing turtlenecks right away, just migrate them upward. She replied that she doesn’t have any undershirts and her mom won’t take her shopping. (Sound familiar?) So we went shopping. It was challenging ’cause she picked up cute jeans, a bottle of perfume, etc to buy. I had to be the one to go pick out the undershirts and make her try them on. She only bought one, but I have seen her wearing it under some shirts. Her mom’s attitude about the whole thing is, “There’s nothing she can do that I haven’t already done.” Very counter-productive attitude when your daughter’s actually wanting to work toward purity.
I love the idea of a Modesty Shirt! That absolutely rocks!
@gina: Glad you enjoy the site. Hope to see you often!
@Anna Grace: That, and the fact that you totally focus on the shoes. I mean, I hardly ever notice shoes. Seriously, it would be a fun YouTube or something to go through the photos and record our reactions.
@Rachel: I really like the idea of the modesty shirt. We once had a girl come into our church with a t-shirt reading “Unbutton Your Fly” and a deacon had to take her out and ask her to turn it inside out.
Of course, I think I would have liked your slogan better…
Perhaps we can make up some slogans both ways and offer them through ITM? I think they’d be a big hit– with both captions!
Haha, shoes are so fun! I wish I’d kept our chat history, you’re right – it would be fun to post our reactions.
Believe it or not, I may still have that in meebo. Fun for us, but would it necessarily be fun for others to read?
I do believe it. Who knows? It could be fun. We’d have to post the pictures next to the transcript, you understand. Oh, fuhgeddaboutit. Too much work.
It actually wouldn’t be that hard– as long as we can find out if we can legally use the pictures. It wouldn’t be the same if we just linked…